The Expert Podcast

…If you look far and long enough you're going to find different places where you can purchase a VIN plate or VIN number plate In some cases you'll find actual VIN plates removed from a vehicle. like the one you see on the screen here sometimes you'll see actually companies that make VIN plates from scratch make new VIN plates and they etch them out. The…VIN played sometimes come with a piece of the cowling and a title. Sometimes they come with just the rivets and the title. And again sometimes you can just buy a fresher VIN plate. So before you do this you need to be aware of what the laws are And sometimes the reason that somebody wants to do a VIN plate is because they purchased a vehicle that maybe is a parts only vehicle or has a salvage title. And they're wanting to switch it over. You need to be where the laws because many cases what you're intending to do, maybe accidentally is a crime. And the crime is evidenced in. section 18 of the United States code. And here's what it says Altered. a removing motor vehicle identification numbers, right It's very clear That's obviously what you're doing. So the person who knowingly removes obliterates tampers with our altars and identification number for motor vehicle. Or. And it's not And it's or if you do this knowingly removes shall be fined under this title and prison not more than five years So it's a federal felony. To tamper with a VIN number. Are there any exceptions to this There are some exceptions and we'll look at those, but before we do that, Just make sure you understand is that. VIN number is integral with the car it's part and parcel to the car. It's what identifies the vehicle as. The legal entity that it is. And if you start switching VIN numbers, you're now taking the identity of one car and putting it on another It's kind of like identity theft. If you present yourself as Joe Schmo but you're really John Smith, that's identity theft and you're doing it to hide maybe a criminal background. Same thing with the vehicle vehicles have backgrounds salvage stolen liens. And if you're using a Vince switch to try to erase one of those that's what they're trying to avoid And that's why it's a crime So don't do this right. Now there may be legitimate reasons to switch in but if you do it you have to go through a certain process You have to make notifications You can't just scrape off a VIN number and put it on another car. I'll also most vehicles have the VIN number in more than one place. So if you take the one off the dash or the firewall and slap it on. Another vehicle that other vehicles kind of have the real VIN number hidden somewhere. Many of the VIN number locations are not disclosed to the public. So when it's inspected by law enforcement…They're going to find the other VIN number and now that's going to create legal problems. Remember we're not attorneys we're not giving you legal advice but before you start moving even from. Where it's located, you might want to get good legal advice right Because there's some people that didn't intend to have any legal problems that ran into problems It was a major automotive. Remodeler and custom builder in California that builds a lot of vehicles like, you know Batmobile type movie cars, and this person got in legal trouble I think they actually had to go to jail because they were switching VINs from one car to another. A lot of times this comes up when there's a history like a salvage title that somebody wants to avoid inspection, or when there's a parts only designation on a vehicle and they say well I'll just get a VIN from another car and put it on this one And all things are fine. It's not fine. So, when is it allowable? Two. Switch event. This section does not apply to removal. Unless the person…Is a scrap metal processor or motor vehicle The. Demolish sir, who complies with state law What that means is if you remove a VIN number to scrap and shred the car and you turn that VIN number into the state to show that that vehicle is demolished, that's allowed. If it's necessary for repair. This is a gray area. If you're a garage and you have to take the cowl off to do a body repair on a vehicle or you have to take it off to do something. That's okay But it has to be necessary for the repair, not just because you're, let's say restoring a vehicle and you feel like taking the VIN number off in fact most states because you have to apply You have to comply with state law. Most states require that if you're going to take a VIN number off for repair, that you make notification to the state police in that state, you have to take a photo before. You take it off, you have to have the vehicle inspected. You have to take a photo after you put it back on and have the vehicle inspected, what they want to make sure you're not doing is taking a stolen car and putting a clean VIN number on that car. Right because that defeats the whole purpose of a VIN number. If you're doing it in accordance with state law just like we talked about this section see if it's in accordance with state law. Or…If the…Person who removes or obliterates the motor vehicle If the person is the owner and is authorized. In accordance with state law, right Or authorized by the attorney general. To implement the motor vehicle theft prevention act. So this again is getting into auto theft. As using the section motor vehicle demolish her is a person who is a recycler or…a parts or metallic scrap metal processor. So the short answer is this. It may be tempting to buy a title and a VIN number for somebody on eBay or Etsy or some website and slap it on your car to solve your title problem or solve your. vehicle history problem. The problem with that is it's a crime and it's a federal crime It's not even at the state level. And again there's people that have been investigated and are in prison right now for doing this. It's not investigated by your local police officer or sheriff. This is usually the secret service or FBI. That gets involved with investigating this alt. of VIN numbers. If…especially if the reason you switch a VIN number is to try to cover up some history of the vehicle. Salvage title. What do you don't want to get it inspected? Maybe there's a lien on the vehicle you're trying to hide. Maybe there is a stolen record You're trying to hide. Obviously for most civilian consumers, you're not trying to cover up a stolen vehicle but you might say well, you know it's a salvage title and I don't want to inspect it or they require too much documentation. But especially if the reason you're wanting to switch a VIN number is to try to make something easier for you or to evade some other responsibility like a lien or salvage or taxes or stolen. That's going to be a red flag And if that's ever discovered which at some point it will be right, that's going to come back on the person who signed the form with that VIN number on it And if they find a tampered VIN, Look. VIN numbers You might think it's just a matter of putting it on the car but if you notice. See how these holes on this VIN plate are. You know kind of cut out. Look at this one this one actually has the rivets. VIN plates are attached with tamper proof rivets. If the police officer or somebody inspecting a vehicle or anybody looking at the vehicle notices that there's any tampering scratch marks screw marks. Or tool marks on a VIN plate. That's going to be a red flag. Police officers are trained to look for this. Every time they pull over a vehicle they look at the VIN plate. Not to just see the VIN number but to look at the rivets and how it's attached. If it's crooked if they're scratches, if the VIN. if the rivets are not appearing to be. tamper-proof if it's just screws or some other type of pop rivets, they're going to flag that car and they're going to look at it So…don't switch VIN numbers unless there's a very specific documented process for doing it. If you're doing a full rotisserie restoration on a vehicle and you have to take off that VIN plate. To do some repair. That's fine But think about it. Even if you do a full rotisserie restoration on a classic car you don't need to take off the VIN plate. The VIN plate is part of the fire. part of the cowl. It's not something that's separate. So it's very unlikely You'd need to do that. Anytime it's removed the first thought of any inspector is going to be. It was removed for a bad reason So if you're removing it for a legitimate reason, you better document it and have pictures and have your local law enforcement inspector usually state police be part of your restoration process Have them look at it before, during and after. So there's there's no question that you didn't switch it over because. Look. In theory if you're switching that VIN number, it's because of a high value vehicle. And if you do anything even legitimately, that puts that value in jeopardy that you have a $200,000. Daytona. we're Superbird Hemi. And you just take the VIN plate off because you want to paint the firewall properly and you put it back on wrong. Now all of a sudden your ownership of that vehicle is in jeopardy, hundreds of thousands even if it's a $20,000 car even if it's a $10,000 car, you don't want to put that at risk because you did something maybe accidentally with the VIN number. Obviously if you're doing it intentionally to get over, that's going to create more problems. VIN plates are crucial If you have any questions you might want to contact an attorney who specialized. in automotive law because they can give you good legal advice about exactly what your rights are and responsibilities with respect to reconstruction or VIN number tampering or removal.