The Expert Podcast

…So what happens if you're a victim of a fraud or scam or a Ponzi scheme? And the skimmer fraudster doesn't have all your money What happens if you send money to some…Bitcoin scam or some…cryptocurrency scam and. They took your money and it's not in the account anymore. Where else can you get money from We're going to take a look at. The us department of justice asset forfeiture guide. And see what your options are as a victim Remember we're not attorneys we're not giving you legal advice This is just an overview of what we've seen in other fraud cases. This is from the us department of justice, money laundering and asset recovery section So this is exactly why. they do for a living. they look to recover assets on behalf of victims and they have a guide for this This is their statutes. it's about a 300 page document. we're going to jump right to the section on. How to recover assets and get replacement assets If you're the victim of a scam. And we're going to start with this section right here It's under 21 us code 8 53 criminal forfeitures. Property subject to criminal forfeiture. Any person convicted of a violation. is punishable by imprisonment. And also. Shall forfeit any property constituting derived from the proceeds. From the vine. So if somebody…is a scammer. And they…obtain the proceeds from that scam. That's subject to forfeiture. Any of the property used. To commit the forfeiture So…here's a good example. If somebody has an office building. And they use that office to commit the scam. Even if that office wasn't obtained from the scam if it was used in the scam. Then in theory. The government code, forfeit that asset. What about property That's transferred to somebody else Well third-party transfers is covered right here. Any property that is subsequently transferred to a person other than defer. may be subject to forfeiture. And ordered forfeit forfeited as part of the crime. Unless the person can show that it was for a specific purpose. We've seen some cases the Scott Rothstein case in Florida where. Scott Rothstein, who was a disbarred attorney who ran a large Ponzi scheme I purchased…A lot of jewelry from a watch company. And that watch company was ordered. To return the money. That they receive because it was. A proceed of the fraud and the scam So third parties can be liable for this. And really now it extends to any other property If a person. is convicted of this scam. They are subject to forfeiture all their property unless it was acquired. During the period of the violation. I'm sorry outside of the pier of the violation. And there was no likely source for the property other than the violation. So. Government can do What's called the substitution. If a person who's a scammer. Has squandered all of the money that they took from victims. They can replace that with other assets even if those assets were not…A result of the scam this has been done many times, so let's say a person has a million dollar house…And then they go into. Being a scammer being a Ponzi schemer. And they steal a million dollars from victims, but they spend that million they go on vacations dinners, trips clothing jewelry whatever. So that money's gone. When the government looks to recover that money for victims, if that money is gone they can replace it. With other assets owned by the scammer. And that's covered in this section right here substitute property in any case. The court shall order the food. of any other property up to the value of any property described in a through E so if the property that. Is a result of the scam is not available They can substitute property. They can also forfeit on the civil side…All raw materials products equipment for using manufacturing or. using for the scam or in this case narcotics all property use. As a container. And all conveyances aircraft vehicles vessels So if this scammer is using other…resources to extend or continue their fraud. Those can be forfeited as well So if you're the victim of a. this is what the government can do. And a lot of times you can use these on the civil side. To replace the lost assets. That have been taken from you either under false pretense by fraud, by Ponzi scheme or some other. maybe a unregistered security. So remember recovering assets. That were lost in a scam or fraud. Have many avenues, third parties maybe liable replacement assets substitute assets or even assets that were used by the scammer. To take your money.