The Expert Podcast

Okay Today is one of our videos That's very eagerly awaited for two or three times a year. We cover all of the updates for vehicle titling, how to get a vehicle title in many different types of situations with complicated scenarios lien releases mechanics liens the Vermont loophole, abandoned vehicles We're going to cover it all. And some of the differences this year 2023 that might have been. allowable before but maybe you can't do anymore. And some of the best practices you can use to make sure that your title problem is solved properly.

If you're doing a title recovery where you don't have proper paperwork or you bought a vehicle without a title or you had a title and then lost it before you put it in your name. This is going to cover all that. And in 2023 January 1st there were a lot of laws passed which changed. What the allowances and requirements are that might affect you Maybe you could do something in 2023 that you can't do anymore. So we're going to get into all that and there may be.

Methods of getting a title. that were not available. In prior years that now are available that might make it easier So we're going to jump right in first of all, a vehicle title you can see a picture one here on the screen.

is a legal government document. It's issued only by a government agency You can't buy one from a company. You can't download one from the internet. It only comes from a government agency. In most states, that agency is called department of motor vehicles or department of transportation They have an agency in every state that does this.

And the question comes up a lot is well what states are easy What states are hard Well, everybody that calls up when our salespeople tell us. They say all my state's really hard Well the only reason that you think your state is hard because that's the only state you've really dealt with, every state is going to be hard. It's going to seem harder than getting other things done For example, When you go to buy something at a store they make it easy to buy something When you go to DMV they make it hard to get a title because it's a different process. So. Every state is going to be hard because

the rules for that state come from the federal government even though the 50 states are different. The rules for issuing titles are issued by the federal government What are the rules Well,

here are the titling requirements This happens to be the state of Missouri and we're going to cover a lot of different states here too. So be aware that. You may see your state show up but even if it doesn't, the requirements are probably going to be the same. you have 30 days from the date of purchase to title and pay sales tax on your vehicle. To title a motor vehicle.

The owner must admit the following. A certificate of title meaning that you have to have properly signed over to you. The title from the last owner. So that's the first thing. So if you don't have that right away, you cannot go through a normal process.

I'm betting The reason you're watching this is because you don't have the last title signed over to you because if you did, you wouldn't need to watch this video You already have your title. You would have gone to DMV. You would have gotten your title and you'd be done. That's not your case, but let's just assume you do because we'll. look at some of the other things you need.

An application for a time for a new title in your name. So you're going to need to have that regardless. You're going to need to have the identification number, the VIN number inspected. So the VIN number on your dashboard and the odometer reading on your gauges have to be inspected. Bye.

A government agent DMV police. Authority. You also may need a safety inspection especially if the car's coming from out of state you might need a safety inspection.

if there's a lien that you need a lien release and we'll talk about those later. And they have a catchall, additional documentation may be requested Okay Boom How much does this cost Well guess what. Title's cheap. Pedals eight bucks. Most states have a title fee between five and $50.

But that assumes you have all your ducks in a row You have all your paperwork in order you have the old title you have all these things. If you don't have that. We'll get into the details. You have to pay sales tax. Right.

On the purchase price some states charge on the purchase price, some states charge on the book value. So that's the normal process Well you're not normal aria right You want to do something different? So what options do you have? Well we're going to talk about the Vermont loophole We're going to talk about mechanics liens We're going to talk about abandoned vehicles. We're going to talk about bonded title process and court order title and which is better in which should you pick out?

Let's first talk about the Vermont. What they call a loophole? What does that mean Well here's the description of the Vermont loophole. The Vermont DMV department of motor vehicles will issue a registration form of ownership. it's Not a title it's a registration.

For vehicles 15 years old or older So if you have a vehicle right now if it's 2008 and older, So 2007 2006 2005 and all the way back as far as you can go. You can get. A registration ownership document from the state of Vermont How do you do that Well, you apply by mail. To the state of Vermont There's a form you fill out. You,

document certain things about the vehicle You have to have a bill of sale. You mail it to Vermont, they will send you a registration. Not a title it's a registration. And then you take that to your state to exchange for a title…

It will be issued to a person who did not. Present a title to Vermont You don't need to have the old title Remember what Missouri said? Right. Missouri said you have to have certificate of title. Vermont…

You do not have to present a certificate of title. You do not need to live in Vermont You don't even have to have your vehicle in Vermont Sounds pretty good right? So this loophole has been talked about for decades going back 20 years. You send a bill of sale you send the form, you get registration and then you bring it to your state In this case Florida. And you use the registration as a proof of ownership to obtain a title in your state This happens to be Florida.

What's the catch What's the problem? Well there's three problems. Problem number one is you have to pay sales tax to Vermont Remember what Missouri said? Sales tax. Is based on the purchase price of the vehicle.

In. Vermont it's based on the book value of the vehicle It doesn't matter what condition it's in They're going to look up the book value full retail, charge you tax and it's 6%. It's going to be a lot of money. So if you have a vehicle that's a barn Fine All beat up. Bucket of bolts.

Frame on the, on the ground. And it's only you paid $500 for it with a bill of sale. If they look it up in a book and it says it's 14,000 in the book. Well guess what Now you're going to pay 600 some odd dollars in tax. Maybe it's worth it.

But keep that in mind. There's some older classic cars that the book value is 2030 grand You're talking to a thousand dollars in tax…

So keep in mind that's a downside What's the other downside Well, Even if you pay that now you have a Vermont registration. Okay. Well when you bring your Vermont registration to your state, what's going to happen Well now you're bringing technically an out of state vehicle. It's kinda need a safety inspection, right So your vehicle now has to be inspected by your state before they give a title Maybe that's okay. Right, but you're gonna have to get it there and have it passed inspection where if you get a title from your own state and may not need that inspection out of state vehicles normally need inspection to bring it into your state and you might think well I'm not bringing it into my state Well, paperwork says you are, you have a Vermont registration.

You're bringing it to your state. What's another problem Well you remember this. Language we're talking about 15 years older man He says where does this come from Why is this thing Florida When this is the Vermont process Well I'm going to scroll up Here's the punchline. Florida has a bulletin. Information notice about the Vermont registration.

They're saying it's a fraud alert…

They know that…

The possibility of fraudulent transactions using Vermont registrations effective immediately, additional documentation is now required. So. DMV's all across the country It's not just Florida. They know about this Vermont loophole just because you found out about it yesterday doesn't mean that the DMV. Doesn't know about it.

You may have found it by doing some searching online or Google or some web search, but that's just because you're just now needing to get a title for a vehicle. DMVs across the country like Florida and all of the DMVs They do titles every day They've been doing titles for 20 years so they know about them because they're in that business. They're not stupid They know this exists. So because of the fact that they know that people are using this little loophole back door, they're putting additional requirements on it. What are the requirements Well, in Florida, you have to have an extra form.

You have to have the original Vermont registration and the registration must contain a Vermont residence address Well you're not going to have that. Cause you're in Florida. Or whatever state you're also going to need to pay. Sales tax again, you already paid it to Vermont Now you have to pay the Florida. Right.

So you could use this Vermont process but be aware that your state might give you a hassle They might give you the run-around. Some states are more adamant than others than Florida. Some states might be less adamant. Some of this comes and goes right There was a period of time where the state of Indiana had big signs in the window of their DMV that says Vermont registrations are not accepted. Now after some period of time that went away they changed their mind, Florida at some point might change their mind, but at any given day, Any one state anyone office even a person that works in an office might give you a hard time about the Vermont process.

So you can use it, but be aware that there's downsides Right. Also make sure if you use the Vermont process, don't take that Vermont license plate put it on your car or truck and drive around with it. That's not what it's for. Your state requires you to have it registered in your state within 30 days Now within 30 days of buying the vehicle within 30 day. of becoming a resident?

I'm assuming you've been a resident of your state for more than 30 days So you have to get it registered in your state from day one. You can't use the Vermont plates. If you get pulled over and it shows your red your address and your state your car might get towed and impounded, you might not get it back easily. So what else can you do? Well there's another process called a bonded title.

Surety bond title and lien bonded titles Again this is Florida We'll use this example, but every state.

have something like this There's eight states that don't do bond to titles Most of them do, but there's a procedure manual for this procedure manual Those are the key words. It means you have to follow their loopholes and their steps. What are the steps for the procedure manuals? Well it gives you the statute that provides it. May accept a bond along with an affidavit That's the key You have to sign an affidavit saying how you got the vehicle…

Provide a surety bond which you get from a bonding agency I might cost you a couple hundred bucks. And now you're going to get a bond to title. That title is going to say bonded stamped on it in big red letters. Maybe that doesn't bother you but if you're looking to sell the car it might make it tough to sell. Also remember if you're going to move out of state, some states don't accept bonded titles For example if you're in Florida and you decided to move to Louisiana, Louisiana doesn't accept bonded titles.

So you might have a problem with that…

When does a bond to title help, if the customer seeking a title is unable to provide a title certificate that assigns the prior owner to the new owner, that's where a bonded title comes in. That's what we're talking about right…

You need to have. Certificate of title to get a new title Well if you don't have it…

Then you can use a bonded process. Right. Vehicles eligible for a bonded title whether certain years it has to be newer than 2010. I'm sorry older than 2010. but newer than 92 right Yeah Every state has different rules also.

It can. have a prior electronic title and in Florida. The last title has to be from Florida If it's titled out of state. It's not eligible. So be aware that every state has a bunch of things that make it.

Ineligible to get a title in your state. So keep in mind map because it's an alternate process. There may be some things that make it ineligible like if it's stolen or it says here, if it has a lien or encumbrance, There's there's not going to be a bonded title available and you have to go through that bonding company So, that's another option but it remember it's a little bit of a. red tape jumped through hoops kind of thing And they might give you a little bit of the run-around. Okay What about mechanics lien A lot of people say well I'll just slap a mechanics lien on that car Well guess what Mechanics lien is a process but in general, It's required Almost every state requires that you be a licensed automotive facility.

You have to be repair shop body shop towing company, car dealership, and you have to have a license for that. In addition you. to have documentation that shows that you actually work on that vehicle or towed in that vehicle You have to have assigned repair order from the customer saying yes please replace my transmission. If you're just making this up to slap a mechanics lien, it's not going to work in fact. A lot of the regulatory agencies have…

tips on dealing with bogus mechanics liens. The state of Texas allows for mechanics lien, but…not all mechanics liens are created equal or filed in good faith. Not long ago bogus lanes were a large problem for Texas dealers So here's what happens. A lot of repair shops body shops mechanic shops. Realize they can do a mechanics lien to get titles and they'll start filing fake liens for cars Not that they had in their shop but to help their buddy get a title or to sell a service.

To get titles. So they're going to be highly scrutinized. In fact, they're passing laws and all the states to, make it very difficult to get a mechanics lien. You know you have to file within 15 days. after the notice you have to file 30 days after the notice was passed to do an auction So unless you are a legitimate licensed garage and have assigned repair order, mechanics lien is probably not the way to go You can't just make up storage fees out of thin air to get a title Otherwise it's going to get rejected and the DMV is not going to accept it.

Well what other options do you have Well let's look at one of those. We're not thinking about mechanics lien…

And holder of a PR possessory lane mechanics lien. Has to be a franchise dealer or a licensed lien holder. You also need to have possession of the vehicle…

Right. possession. Of the vehicle You can't do it when the vehicle is not in your possession You have to make certain notices, the lien holder and notices in writing by certified mail. And it has to go to the addresses in the title record It can't just be a made up address or whatever you find in the glove box They have to go to certain notices. Has to have certain criteria in that…

What your bills are what's your legitimacy is And that. Owner's kind of get noticed when the title's transferred to, if you don't send these notices out first of all the DMV won't give you a title, but if you fudge the letters or do something funny with it, after you get your title, the prior owner is going to get a notice from the DMV saying you remember that car used to own. That vehicle was now transferred to somebody else's name. What it's going to say is that vehicle was now transferred to somebody else If you think that this was done, improperly let us know because. The DMV knows that a lot of these mechanics liens are done in properly.

That's why they have this bulletin, bogus mechanics liens They talk about it. They know that. Bogus liens were a large problem for Texas dealers right? And they pass some laws to address the growing problem of bogus mechanics lien So the states know about this. You're not doing something they're not aware of.

You're not outsmarting the DMV by trying to do a fake mechanics lien So avoid that at all possible. What about what about the next one that people ask about a lot is abandoned vehicles Can I file for an abandoned vehicle Well let's look at an example of abandoned vehicles and this happens to come from Pennsylvania, their titling division That's called Penn dot Pennsylvania department transportation. Here's how you dispose of an abandoned vehicle on private property. The following methods do not apply to private parking lots unless they're posted.

that you can't park there You have three options. The property owner may request a police department to declare it abandoned and require a salver to take possession of the vehicle What does that mean? Call tow truck tow it away. Right. So if you are saying this vehicle is abandoned, you have to say it's abandoned too You don't get to keep it.

Yourself It's not finders keepers. The property owner may personally remove the vehicle. And then bring an action before the justice to recover costs. Well what does that sound like? Bring an action before district.

Justice. Doesn't that sound like a court. We'll talk about that court order title. The property order may file suit in a common police court Well there you go That's court. So abandoned vehicles.

Are not finders keepers. Right The DMV was not going to give you a title. The DMV can't do this but the court can what the court can give you is. The DMV or in this case Penn dot would be able to accept a court order as evidence of ownership in lieu of a title That's the key right there. So once you run into any roadblocks with your vehicle and with your title any roadblocks at all, Before you start jumping into abandoned vehicles, be careful because some states as soon as you call it abandoned.

All bets are off You have to surrender to the state They auction it off. But the court can help you. Right. Here's where it's, it's the words right here are key. Penn dot which is the equivalent of DMV and Pennsylvania would be able to accept a court order as evidence of ownership in lieu of a title.

Boom. That's what you want to do you want to do court order title What is that? How does that work Let's take a look. Here's why you file right here. This is an application for an order to issue title.

You filed this directly with the court in the county where you reside. You don't go to DMV You don't go to the title office You skip right past them because they're going to have certain rules that you probably don't want to abide by. They're going to have rules about fraud alert on Vermont They're going to have rules about procedures. Policies on, on

bonded titles. They're going to have rules about, bogus mechanics lean They're going to have rules about abandoned vehicle, but if you go straight to. Court order title. Then you bypass all those rules The court can issue a ruling that overrides any rules the DMV has. So what you're going to have to file is three documents Here's one of them This is called the petition.

This is a petition for the court to say you are the owner. That's number one, you also need to file an affidavit The affidavit is how did you obtain the vehicle basically your so you have to give your story of your vehicle titling. Then you have to file a letter of non-interest saying that you don't know of anybody that has an interest in the vehicle. You filed those three things with the court in the county where you reside You don't have to go where the car came from.

you know where anywhere else you go to the county where you are a resident in your jurisdiction…and the court is going to give you a response date. That's usually is about two or three weeks out. And they may ask for some things like a picture of the VIN number a copy of your bill of sale, they may ask for a copy of your driver's license. They just want some backup documentation. To make sure that what you're saying is true.

They're going to do some research on the vehicle They're going to make sure it's not stolen No liens no salvage no back taxes, nothing that prevents you from being the owner. And then they're going to have you on that date. Bring those items in. Sometimes they require you to show up in person, raise your right hand. Swear.

Under oath that everything you're saying is true. Usually they don't want you to do that because they don't want a lot of extra people coming in their courthouse. If they can avoid it right They already have too many people showing up in court. And they want to keep it all done remotely if possible. So they may ask you to drop some stuff off mail it in fax it email it, text message whatever.

And then once you are done with that they're going to give you this They're going to give you. A order to issue certificate of title This will be signed by the court. Once you get this order. Then you bring that to your state DMV slap it on the counter. And they give you a title.

So this is a method that. You know two three years ago. Was unheard of. Look this is from Cuyahoga county This is their official form for this county in Ohio. Most jurisdictions don't have a form.

For example this. Application or petition You can see it's a form where you can fill in blanks. There's 3,611 counties in the country There's only about six or seven that actually have a fill in the blanks form. Most of the counties you have to type all this up yourself. on a blank sheet of paper, our website will give you.

Examples of what you can type on the paper. We also have a service If you want to have us assist with it, you can. But a court order title is very powerful. Think about what we talked about. Vermont method there's downsides fraud alert for for,

Florida. Bonded title there's downsides. It's stamped bonded on your title. You have to jump through hoops. Mechanic's lien.

There's a fraud alert for that…

Abandoned vehicle. Some states abandoned vehicle right on Pennsylvania tells you to go to court. So, if you want to bypass any potential problems, just jump right to a court order title. Look the other methods are still there. There's still the Vermont loophole that people love to do because they feel like they're getting over on the DMV They're outsmarting their DMV.

There are still the bond to title You can do. But don't try to outsmart the DMV go over their head. Right. court order right away. It seems like it's more work.

but it's really not At the end of the day by the time you do all this stuff you have to do for Vermont or bonded or mechanic's lien or abandoned. You'll be right back where you started and you could have done that the court order, and I already had a title in your hand. And here's the other thing. If you go to the DMV with anything else, Vermont registration, a bonded title. Abandoned vehicle you show up at DMV.

The DMV tries to make it hard for you to get a title. Think about it. Have you ever talked to the DMV on the phone or gone in person They make you feel like you're a criminal They try to kick you out They try to reject you. They try to make it hard for you to get a title. The courts the opposite.

The court is trying to help you. The court is there to try to be your advocate. So don't go to the place that tries to fight against you. The DMV is trying to find a way to not give you a title The court is trying to find a way to give you a title. So go with an ally on your side.

Not just…

you all by yourself trying to fight against bureaucracy, right It cuts through the red tape. And really the DMV likes this too because it gives them an excuse to give you a title rather than them having to look through their procedure manual which is here. Look this procedure manual. Has.

14 pages of rules just for bonded. Right They have to abide by all these rules You have to complete this fill this out do all these things. And that's just for one. Method for bonded. So they're trying to find ways not to give you a title where the court all they have to do is.

They look at your form. One page, if your story of how did you obtain the vehicle It seems like it makes sense. They're there to help you. They want to try to help you Now if the car stolen, they're not going to help you. If there's some lien problems they're not going to help you You may need to get a lien release, but we'll cover that in a separate video…

Make the title process easy for you. Don't make it hard for you by fighting. the hardest process, Use the easier process. Right And you can even make it easier if you want to not have to do the paperwork we have a service or we can even do the paperwork for you.

So if you're like most people that call us…

You've gotten the runaround from the DMV. They've made it hard It's ridiculous It's unfair. Right We've heard all the words in the book about the DMV, and…this is a way to eliminate all that hassle. So you don't have to…be stuck with a car You have no title for. So that's the overview of the landscape for titles for 2023.

Be aware of Vermont. Be aware of bonded. Be aware of mechanics liens Those are big no-no and…even abandoned vehicles. It's a trap. Because if you file for an abandoned you may find that the state calls you up and says okay, we see you're abandoned Give us the vehicle Cause we auctioned it off.

They don't let you do finders keepers on an abandoned car. In most cases the car's really not abandoned You know where it came from Somebody sold it to you They gave it to you and you're trying to get a title So it's an it's an urban legend that abandoned vehicles the way to get it title. Just like it's an urban legend The mechanics liens a way to get a title. So make it easy on yourself and don't make the job any harder Cause you already have enough obstacles of getting a title with the bureaucracy and red tape of the DMV.